One of my first feelings as proceedings kicked off was one of disappointment at discovering there were so few atheists there: about 10% of the audience according to the initial show of hands. This disappointment remained as Craig proceeded to thrash Wolpert out of the jam-packed Westminster Central Hall; I just kept wishing there had been even more people there to see it.
As it was, we didn't get a real debate at all. Wolpert was simply appalling. At face value, his two main arguments seemed to be (1) that religious belief can be accounted for naturalistically and (2) who made God, eh? However, implicit throughout was his main argument, something like that which J.P. Holding has dubbed "the argument from serious assertion", namely:
- God does not exist.
- No, seriously.
- Therefore, God does not exist.
His naturalistic explanations for the origins of belief in the divine and for religious experience were such unmitigated just-so stories that I can hardly be bothered to repeat them; and, in any case, as Craig pointed out, used in this way they are near-irrelevant (I think most theists would welcome the claim that people are somehow neurologically hard-wired to belive in God). It is worth noting that - while each speaker was given 20 minutes for an initial address, 10 minutes for a first rebuttal, 7 minutes for a second rebuttal and 5 minutes for a conclusion - Craig used nearly all of his available time while Wolpert ran out of things to say very early on, and that in every speech Wolpert asked "who made God" and in every reply Craig pointed out that to be God means (in part) to be uncaused and eternal.
Craig, for his part, used his now-standard 5 arguments (Craig's Five Ways?): the argument from the beginning of the universe (and hence, all matter, energy, space and time), the argument from the fine-tuning of the universe, the argument from the objectivity of moral values, the argument for the historical reliability of the resurrection accounts and the argument from personal experience (his testimony). I was expecting to hear some tough responses... and I heard sixth-form arguments. I expected to hear a challenge to the coherence of the divine attributes... and I heard "who made God?" I expected to hear an appeal to a possible multiverse... and I heard a rhetorical shrug of the shoulders as regards the mind-bogglingly small probability of a life-permitting universe. I expected to hear a robust version of the Euthypro dilemma... and I heard a man who first claimed that there was nothing more to morality than biological and social imperatives, then said there were some things that were really wrong, then refused to acknowledge that he had contradicted himself. I expected to hear an empassioned appeal to the problem of evil... and yet only Humphrys seemed in the least concerned with that. Finally, I felt entitled, from such a renowned professor of Biology, to hear a discussion of evolution that went at least slightly deeper than "evolution did it", "there's loads of evidence" and "you're just ignorant".
In sum, I expected to hear some atheistic arguments, and yet all I heard Wolpert do was repeat loudly that "there's no evidence for God at all whatsoever" while refusing to engage with the theistic arguments he had just heard. My question for any atheists out there is: is this the best you can do? This was the Vice-President of the British Humanist Association, after all.


8 comments:
I heard Craig and Wolpert on "Today" and was interested in the debate. I could not find a report in the press, but at the last count there were four blog reports (not bad from an audience of 2000!). mattghg, you get the prize. Thanks for the blog, which captures the flavour of the event, and gives an excellent commentary.
Yes, well said Matt, although I shall now have to join you in putting forward a blog-post on this - if I can do so!
Sorry I wasn't able to walk you back to the station last night, but that's the danger of London for me - so many people I know and haven't seen for ages to catch up with!
Anyway, hope to see you very soon, and thanks for providing good company on what was really rather a fun evening!
Finally, please pray for me, as I shall for you!
Grace and Peace be with you friend,
Peter
+ :)
Thank you both, and Pete, don't worry at all. It certainly was a fun evening out; I just pray it was also a turning point for some people.
Amen!
+ :)
When will Craig debate Jeffery Jay Lowder or Doug Krueger of the Internet Infidels?
Craig has been ducking them for years.
Craig has once debate Eddie Tabash of the Internet Infidels.
Guess what? Craig does not want to repeat *that* experience....
Hey, Steven. Thanks for dropping by: I was beginning to get jealous that you'd made that comment on every other blog post about the debate except mine.
Of course, I have no idea when or if Craig will debate Lowder or Krueger. I don't know him personally. I'm not his PA. I'm not a prophet. I'm afraid I can't help you here.
How disappointing! They sound unprepared. Who goes to a debate unprepared? Especially such an interesting one?
When will Craig debate Jeffery Jay Lowder or Doug Krueger of the Internet Infidels?
They're currently working on it. Dr. Craig said he would like to debate Lowder, contrary to your past comments that he didn't want to. Like many idiots, you've been making up rumors about Dr. Craig.
Craig has been ducking them for years.
That's a lie. I have a personal email from Jeff Lowder who knew that Dr. Craig wanted a debate with him. I'll forward to you if you want me to.
Craig has once debate Eddie Tabash of the Internet Infidels.
Guess what? Craig does not want to repeat *that* experience....
Actually, the opposite is true. Many atheists such as Richard Carrier believed that Tabash lost the debate. You can read that here.
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